In a new feature on The Football Project, Paul Borthwick and Ross Dunbar engage in a debate over their differing opinions on a certain prolific German striker; Miroslav Klose. The pair don’t exactly see eye to eye on his role within the current national team set-up and so they are getting down to it… with their words…

Paul Borthwick: Only 4 games into the Bundesliga season and already it’s time for a break. Thankfully it’s international time and for me that means one thing – Miro Time. I’ll be honest – not many things in world football make me happier than seeing Miroslav Klose’s name on the Mannschaft score sheet.

I know you must be a fan, who isn’t? But would you agree with me that he has enough left in the tank and enough faith from Joachim Löw to keep going till World Cup 2014? I know I’m going to have to make the case for Miroslav so let me start with – more German international goals (61) than all but one man and more World Cup Finals goals (14) than all but one man. The only man to score four or more goals in three World Cup finals. Owner of a Golden Boot. Owner of a Silver Boot. Missed out on another Golden Boot in South Africa last year by one goal because he missed 2.5 games through injury and suspension.

Ross Dunbar: This is a new Germany. A young, energetic country which, for me, is a stick-on for a top international honour within the next decade. Things have changed in German Football. The days of Ballack, Schneider and Neuville are in the past. Now, the generation of Gotze, Ozil and Muller is taking the Mannschaft to another level. As you point out, Klose’s record is exceptional. But he and Podolski should be consigned to history like the previous veterans of International football.

PB: I love your desire to send poor old Lukas Podolski (and his 42 German goals) out to pasture at the ripe old age of 26 but can at least appreciate where you’re coming from with a 33 year old.

But Löw obviously values him. No wonder – Germany have never lost when he has scored. Even in the supposedly meaningless recent 3-2 friendly win over Brazil, Klose got 45 minutes rather than trying someone new or re-trying someone like Cacau. Löw is very obviously giving Miro every opportunity to get the eight goals he needs to climb ahead of Gerd Muller in the Mannschaft scoring list. Klose is the joint top scorer in Euro 2012 qualifying with eight goals tying him with Klass-Jan Huntelaar of Holland. He’ll be ‘home’ for the finals in Poland next summer, at the very least.

RD: Klose’s last league goal came in January 2011 – and before that, his last league goal was in April 2010. Should he be automatically selected due to his international record? Not for me.

History is what is history is – in the past. Germany is building for Euro 2012, World Cup 2014 and Euro 2016. Three massive competitions for German Football where the “new” Germany will get the chance to lock horns with the champions of international football, Spain. What future does Klose have? The striker will be 34 by the time Euro 2012 kicks off in Poland and Ukraine. Joachim Low shouldn’t pick on loyalty, or previous records, he should continue with the philosophy of building for future competitions. The man to lead the line is Mario Gomez. Klose won’t be around in 2014 or 2016 – surely, it would make sense for Gomez to be the current and long-term choice as frontman.

PB: Before last year’s World Cup Klose had scored 3 goals all season for Bayern Munich. And Löw picked him. He started the first game. And he scored. And even after he was sent off and suspended he was straight back into the team to face England and Argentina, scoring against both. We are one season away from Euro 2012, he will be there. Whether he’s still at Lazio or more likely enjoying a final fling with the like of former clubs Werder Bremen or Kaiserlautern I expect he’ll get more than 3 goals in the league season 2013-14 so will at the very least be in the discussion for Brazil 2014 as well.

RD: Miroslav Klose is entering an important phase in his career. Deemed not good enough, even as FC Bayern’s second striker, he moved to Serie A to join Lazio – and don’t be fooled by the name. Serie A isn’t the level that it used to be. Lazio finished 5th last season, their last three league finishes before that were 12th, 10th and 12th respectively.

PB: Don’t pay much attention to Lazio’s recent past. They’re targeting the Champions League this year and that’s why Klose is there. It’s hardly as if he’s moved to the SPL.

RD: Mario Gomez has six domestic goals this season – Klose has scored once for Lazio. For Gomez, he’s on-form, high on confidence and is one of the most clinical strikers in Europe. The FC Bayern hitman has scored five goals in his last four internationals. Klose’s last international goal came in March against the might of Kazakhstan. So even based on recent international form, Gomez has, probably, stepped ahead of Klose in the pecking order.

PB: Serie A hasn’t even started yet so there’s no point in comparing Gomez’s Bundesliga tally to Klose’s one goal in Europe.

RD: The fact Lazio haven’t actually played a league match isn’t the fault of Klose. That’s just what happens.

Mario Gomez has taken advantage of that and is in pole position. Cacau and Leverkusen’s Stefan Kiessling are decent options – not necessarily first-team, but they are good back-up strikers to Mario Gomez in my opinion. Most European teams would kill for strikers like Cacau and Kiessling. You also have Patrick Helmes who has been out of the fold for some time.

PB: You mean unwanted Wolfsburg striker Partick Helmes that nobody wanted to buy in the transfer window? Löw doesn’t have faith in either Cacau (four goals in 17 games) or Kiessling (no goals in 6 games). Cacau may be still on the fringes of the squad but neither is causing Miro any sleepless nights in Rome. By Brazil 2014 there will be new names starting to emerge but right now, and for the foreseeable future it looks like Gomez and Klose, and that’s it. Löw more than anyone gives youth a chance but on the world’s biggest stage with one of the tournament’s youngest teams I would expect a 36 year old with 60 something international goals and unparalleled World Cup pedigree to get in, on merit, not purely on sentiment.

RD: Until the end of Euro 2012, Klose would be a decent “second-striker” to have in the squad. It seems fairly clear that Low’s top-three German strikers would be Mario Gomez, Miroslav Klose and Cacau. But Klose ahead of Gomez? No chance.

PB: For the record I am not saying we need to compare Gomez and Klose at all. Löw only needs two strikers in a squad playing 4-2-3-1 and those are without fail Klose and Mario Gomez. Mario may have recently usurped Miroslav as first choice but having pulled out of the squad this week due to injury it’s Klose who’ll lead the line against Austria and only a fool would bet against him adding to his tally and cementing his place in the squad for another few games at least.

Since South Africa, when called upon, Klose has always come up with the goods, so why stop picking him? He’s not being picked on history, he’s being picked on current international form. Gomez is first choice, Klose is second choice, but there are enough goals for both in a team that’s scored 22 in seven Euro 2012 qualifying games.Let me be clear – by enough I mean enough for Klose to get eight more German goals, stay in the squad through Euro 2012 and up to Brazil 2014 and get one or two more World Cup Finals goals (but knowing him I’d still wager on four or five).

RD: I’ll say again – the striker will be 34 by the time Euro 2012 kicks off in Poland and Ukraine … and 36 when World Cup 2014 kicks off in Brazil.

PB: Yes he’ll be 34 next summer and 36 by the time he’s in Brazil but did you know that the average age of the oldest goalscorer at the last 6 World Cup Finals was 37? Outside of Roger Milla everyone would struggle to name these pension grabbing poachers so I don’t think it’s much to expect the great Miroslav Klose to match their feats even while playing a squad role. Alan Hansen was wrong to say can’t win with kids, but you do need some grown-ups alongside them to keep the toe-rags in line.

I agree Löw’s New Germany should win a major tournament soon, but they’ll need a fit Gomez and Klose to do so. Look at the emerging talent, Klose and Gomez should continue to feature because the kids are cannibalising each other e.g. Andre Schurrle is only putting pressure on Lukas Podolski, Mario Gotze on Mesut Ozil and Thomas Muller. The Bundesliga pipeline has fired out some amazing players in recent years, but thus far none of them wear a big number nine on their back. Even looking down the youth teams it’s hard to see where the next great German striker will come from. The last ‘Next Klose’ Andre Schurrle looks as likely to end up on the wing as in the penalty box. Klose will be there, with Gomez, leading the line for a few years yet, three in fact.

RD: Your point on Schurrle is spot on. It’s a strange thing that Germany are producing so many quality footballers in the one position. Spain have the wealth of talent in the middle of the park and the Mannschaft have some quite terrific young attacking midfielders. Looking at the long-term future, when I guess both Klose and Cacau will have limited impact at international level, you’re right when you say nobody has really slammed on to the scene as a ‘No.9′ striker.

PB: As well as the greatness of Klose that’s my point – there is still a window of opportunity until a replacement comes along. Not just one (Gomez) but a few. Klose will be an invaluable super-sub for years until one of Pierre Michel Lasogga of Hertha, Maximilian Beister of Hamburg, Samed Yesil of Leverkusen or Shawn Parker from Mainz 05 can step up. Of them all Yesil looks the closest thing to a certainty with 15 goals in 17 games for the German Under 17s but he’ll just be out of his teens by 2014 and like Schurrle before him looks as likely to end up out wide.

RD: I know Löw is fairly loyal to his 4-2-3-1 but it is important that Germany is flexible enough to go 4-3-3 if there are not enough strikers similar to Gomez. Lasogga, Alexander Esswein, Daniel Ginczek, and Peniel Mlapa were involved in the last U21 squad – add to that, the likes of Kroos, Schurrle, Holtby and Rudy. By the time we hit 2014, the amount of options the coach will have is quite frightening.

PB: Agreed. My heart tells me Miroslav Klose will still be one of them but I have to admit my head says his body will have given up by then. As he showed with Michael Ballack, Jogi Löw knows when your time is up. I do think Muller’s German record is there for the taking but Ronaldo can rest easy in retirement with the World Cup record.

Who do you agree with?

Photo by kassch.