Paul Borthwick and Ross Dunbar are back to go head-to-head with their differing opinions. Hamburg haven’t started the season at all well; but how do the guys see the season panning out for their them? Ross, being a Hamburg fan, is much more optimistic than Paul…

Paul Borthwick: Here we go again Ross – I know you’re a Hamburg fan so well placed to convince me they’re too big to go down, will ride out the current storm and preserve their status as the only team to never be relegated from the Bundesliga since it’s inception in 1963.

Ross Dunbar: The brutal reality, as shown with River Plate in Argentina, is that no club is too big to go down. It’s very early days in the Bundesliga and it’s still far too early to say someone is destined for relegation. Strangely, I had tipped Hamburg to really struggle this season. I’m not sure how they’ll turn it around but I expect them to steer clear of relegation in the next 30 matches.

PB: I know it’s early but it feels very ominous. To me it already looks like next season could see some more derby days with St Pauli; unless they pass you on their way back up that is. Michael Oenning looks increasing like a terrible choice and Frank Arnesen’s Chelsea-centric transfer policy has left the squad looking weaker than it has been for years.

RD: As you say, Michael Oenning is a really poor appointment. Obviously, it’s a completely different setup in Germany compared to what we have in the United Kingdom and the blame has to be shared with sporting director Frank Arnesen. You just can’t replace a backbone of Frank Rost, Joris Mathijsen, Ze Roberto and Ruud Van Nistelrooy with the likes of Jeffrey Bruma and Michael Mancienne who’ll need time to adjust to life in Germany. But I suppose, that doesn’t excuse the abysmal performances thus far – especially defensively where they have been shambolic. I’m still slightly optimistic they’ll come through and I think the signing of Ivo Ilicevic could be the difference over the season.

PB: One man to save the season? As much as Arnesen has looked clueless so far it looks like it could be third time lucky with Slobodan Rajkovic but I’m baffled why Arnesen’s pre-season shopping spree saw him spending it all in one place. I don’t know the specifics on Mathijsen leaving – I can see how Qatari money and sunshine could tempt a lot of players to Malaga though – but at least with Joris and Heiko Westermann, the defence looked like one area not in need of remedy. Yes; the team needed to get younger but the swoops for Mancienne and Bruma seem like an attempt by Arnesen to prove his time at Chelsea wasn’t the failure many have said it was. Signing Rajkovic almost feels like buyer’s remorse has hit Frank already – not a good sign of a confident shopper when he probably has to come up with a Plan B in the Christmas sales too. I sense real uncertainty in you Ross – what is it about Oenning that concerns you? I wouldn’t be surprised to see him replaced mid-season sparking a revival in fortunes but it could be too late by then.

RD: There’s just something about Oenning, I can’t quite put my finger on it. Perhaps, it’s the repetitive errors which seem to appear in every game. It’s usually the same two or three things – set-pieces, cross-field balls and balls in to the channel. Every time. Set-pieces are a nightmare and maybe it’s player responsibility rather than the coach. It would probably be quite tedious to go through but why do Hamburg refuse to stick two players on the post? Drobny has this “thing” where he runs out in to the middle of the box – and off the top of my head, it’s already cost them two or three goals.

PB: So we agree the defence looks ropey. One HSV player who I really rate though is Heung Min Son. Can’t argue with 18 pre-season and two Bundesliga goals already. But he’s now out with an ankle injury for up to 2 months. It doesn’t feel like your year.

RD: Yeah, I like Son too. I’m a big fan. I think Son, Petric and Ilicevic is potentially a very decent front-three if we stick with Oenning’s 4-3-3. The strange thing about Mladen Petric though is that for such a big player, he’s only contributed goals from penalties which is quite frustrating. Losing Son though is a massive blow for Hamburg.

PB: The squad does have goals. Can’t argue that. But there’s always a negative with the positives it seems. Ilicevic is a good signing, but the other thing about Petric is that he’s nailed on to miss at least 10 games, he always does. I do also like Paolo Guerrero too, but not if he keeps freaking out on planes and straining his thigh muscles. It’s not the most durable and reliable strikeforce to call upon in desperate times.

RD: Guerrero led the line really well for Peru at the Copa America but as you say, he’s far too injury prone. Hopefully between them all goals won’t be the problem and in time the defence will get it’s act together. Another player I’d like to see play more football at the Volkspark is Tomas Rincon. His performances at the Copa America really impressed me and he’s still only 23.

PB: Honestly can’t comment much on Rincon but there seems a reliance on ‘youth’ (if 23 can still be called youth) which I don’t think is going to be great when the going gets tough. Yes, there are goals in the squad but once the real threat of relegation has sunk in and the battle truly begins I think a lot of people will be wishing they still had a seasoned pro like Ruud Van Nistelrooy to bang in some crucial strikes. Especially as the tension mounts and the number of chances drop. Or being able to call upon a flawed ‘genius’ like Eljero Elia to settle a close game. That said – shipping him out seemed a smart move, never really delivered consistently, if at all for HSV.

RD: Yeah, I couldn’t agree more on Eljero Elia. He flattered to deceive at times and in the big games he was a passenger more anything.

PB: So – on the one hand you could say it’s been a tough start to the season with unsurprising whippings from Dortmund and Bayern but they should have got more from their games with Hertha Berlin and Koln than one point (with six goals conceded). That’s four games without a win this season, 11 league games winless in total when you go back to last season. High flying Werder will smell blood in the Nordderby this weekend, and then I think you could struggle to get much from Gladbach, Stuttgart and Schalke. I can already picture you adrift by the halfway stage.

RD: The thing is though, every game in the Bundesliga is hard; and that’s genuinely not an over-exaggeration. It’s why it makes the German top-flight the best league in the world. The scary way to look at it is that Hamburg aren’t stronger than anyone else in the league. The trip to the Weserstadion will be really tough for Rothosen, especially with Schaaf’s swashbuckling football versus Oenning’s abysmal defending. To be honest, I’d be surprised if Werder didn’t score more than three on Saturday.

PB: I actually think this year’s Bundesliga bottom half looks weaker than last season so that’s something you can cling to. I can see Augsburg struggling badly with Freiburg and Hertha Berlin also well within your sights.

RD: It’s hard to say. There’s so much competition between clubs like Freiburg, Hertha and Augsburg that I don’t know whether we’re actually seeing these clubs at their peak-form. It’ll be a tough season but we can take inspiration from Gladbach. Bottom of the table in March to top of the table in the space of a few months. The Bundesliga is so tight that a few quality additions in January could change things completely.

PB: The more you make me think about it the more I think you’ll scrape through. I’m going to say relegation playoff up against St. Pauli. Now that’s a magical thought. Care to stick your neck on the line?

RD: Augsburg and Kaiserlautern down. Hamburg for the playoffs. Can’t see St Pauli back up though – Eintracht Frankfurt and Greuther Furth should stay strong, and I fancy a return for one of the legends like 1860 or Braunschweig – but not at the expense of Hamburg.

PB: So we agree. A season from hell and a relegation playoff. I’ll give you this one – HSV’s relegation free run in the Bundesliga is not ending this season.

Do you agree or disagree with the chaps?